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Co-founder and CTO at Dawn Aerospace

Co-founder and Co-CEO at Sharesies

Founder chat with Jason Wargent, CEO at BioLumic

Q&A with Christina Bellis, COO @ Cogo

_From doctor to startup founder, Isabelle Bigio, Founder at Bootstrapped NZ grew frustrated with being the ambulance at the bottom of the cliff and her hunger to create a positive impact has led her to hang up the stethoscope to explore the exciting world of startups._

_We caught up with Izzy to learn more about what led her into medicine in the first place, the tough decision to make a major career pivot to explore an alternative path, and more about what inspired her to start Bootstrapped and where she would like to head in the future._

_If you haven't heard of Bootstrapped or subscribed to their fortnightly newsletter, we highly recommend you do. Izzy does a wonderful job highlighting the many interesting things happening across the startup space in Aotearoa from events to funding, as well as some profile on some epic founders building cool stuff._

_Thanks for sharing your story, Izzy._

**Firstly, how would you explain to a five-year-old what it is you do?**

During the daytime, I look after sick people and their families. In the night, I share
stories about cool kiwis building cool stuff.

**And for the adults, what does that translate to in regards to your day-to-day?**

I currently work full-time as a junior doctor. When I’m not doing clinical work, I’m
writing Bootstrapped NZ - a fortnightly newsletter designed to showcase all the cool
things happening in the New Zealand startup ecosystem.

**What did you dream of becoming when you were younger and was a career in
tech ever on the radar?**

As a kid, it was a decision between a marine biologist and a rockstar. I actually spent a
lot of time playing music and songwriting (or attempting to at least). Fortunately for all, in my mid-teens, I put down the notebook, picked up the stethoscope and set out to pursue a career in medicine.

Retrospectively, I was drawn to medicine for a few reasons: circumstances that meant I spent some time in the hospital, a love of science, and a will to use my skills to create a positive impact. 

Medicine, at the time, seemed like a logical choice. What could be more impactful than being a doctor?

At no point did a career in tech cross my mind. It was actually amongst the things I
thought I’d never do (right alongside business and social media - go figure).

**Tell us a little bit more about your career journey and what got you interested
in getting into the startup space?**

From the moment I decided to pursue medicine, I put all my energy into doing exactly
that. I went to medical school and began work as a junior doctor. To my surprise, the
reality of clinical medicine was not what I expected. 

I found myself increasingly frustrated with being the “ambulance at the bottom of the cliff” - managing crises without the ability to prevent them from happening in the first place. 

As a clinician, you see the downstream effects of how things like housing, education and income influence health but your scope to change those things through clinical practice is very limited.

When I realised my true passion lies with changing systems, I decided to resign. This
was one of the hardest decisions I’ve ever had to make. 

I’d wanted to be a doctor for so long that my identity was wrapped up in the job title - questioning that became very confusing. It took a lot of serious self-reflection to dissect that down and articulate what actually drives me: which is creating the conditions for all people to thrive.

I became interested in the startup space after Andrew Chen from Matu was kind enough to chat with a disillusioned junior doctor about alternate careers in science. 

After talking to Andrew, I couldn’t stop thinking about businesses as a vehicle to solve some of the world’s most challenging problems. The people working in startups today are literally building the future we will live in. I thought the only way I could affect societal change was through public health or policy - I was wrong.

**Tell us more about Bootstrapped and the problem you are trying to solve?**

I launched Bootstrapped NZ whilst doing the Startmate Women’s fellowship. I was fizzing with enthusiasm and ready to dive into all things startup but struggled to find a resource that consistently shared NZ startup ecosystem news (meanwhile my LinkedIn feed was dominated by Australian updates). 

Alongside this, I’d been told that nothing of value happens in New Zealand and if I wanted to do anything worthwhile, I needed to leave and go overseas.

I wanted to challenge this narrative by creating a platform to celebrate and share stories from the NZ startup ecosystem, so Bootstrapped NZ was born.

**Lastly, if you were to give the younger version of yourself some career advice
based off what you know now, what would that be?**

Oh boy. I doubt my younger self would listen, but I’d say: think carefully about how you
construct the narrative of who you are and what you are capable of. It might just be the thing holding you back.

For the longest time, I didn’t realise I had unconsciously “decided” what kind of person I was (for example “I am a doctor” or “I am not a businesswoman”). 

I put myself in a box with assumptions that weren’t necessarily founded in reality. Challenging those assumptions has seen me do things I never thought I would and that has been exceptionally fulfilling.

Isabelle Bigio, Founder at Bootstrapped.jpg

Career conversation with Isabelle Bigio, Founder at Bootstrapped

_From shovelling sheep manure to a stint as a corporate lawyer, working for WeWork in Washington DC and now back on home soil as the COO for Jude and ākahu, Josh's career has already taken a few turns. Josh shares his insight into how that has played out as well as some simple advice for anyone considering tech as a career path. Enjoy._

**Firstly, how would you explain to your Grandma what you do?** 

I’ve actually done this with my mum to see if I could explain it well enough! We have two separate businesses: 

Jude is a private banking app. You connect your bank accounts, Kiwisaver, and other providers like telco, energy, loyalty, and transport. All that data flows into Jude every hour, so you have an aggregated view of your finances. We enrich and categorise your transactions so it’s easy to understand your spending. Then there’s a layer of automation tools.

So for example you can email any invoice to Jude, and Jude will pay it on your behalf on the last day before it's overdue. You can prevent overdraft and dishonour fees if you tell Jude to automatically flick funds over from another connected account when that situation is about to occur. You can round up transactions and auto-invest that amount. Jude makes it simple to manage your finances.

ākahu is an open banking platform for NZ. We build and maintain data integrations with major New Zealand providers. Then we bundle those integrations and sell them as a SaaS product to other businesses. For individuals: ākahu puts you in control of your personal data.

We make it simple to access the data that organisations hold about you, and to share that data with trusted third parties of your choice. For developers: ākahu enables your customers to seamlessly connect their data to your app. Your customers can consent to sharing their account, product, usage, balance, and transaction data. They can also consent to initiating payments directly from your app. No one else provides this functionality in New Zealand.

**Was working in tech something you dreamed about doing as a kid? If not, what was?**

Nope. I have a terrible memory for this sort of thing. Growing up on a farm in a rural area, I probably wanted to be a farmer like my dad. My mum tells me I wanted to “save the whales”. As a teen I remember reading a book that made me want to be a doctor. I’ve mentally flirted with many different paths, but I don’t think there was a consistent dream. 

**Tell us a little bit more about your career journey and ultimately about how you ended up working at ākahu/Jude?** 

My first job was digging out sheep manure from under the woolshed on our farm. In my late teens I rented some land from my parents and ran crops and steers. I’m really grateful that my parents nurtured that sense of working for myself - it helped me realise that opportunities are out there waiting to be taken, and I don’t need to rely on finding a job from someone else. It’s something I’d like to replicate with my kids. 

After uni I did a stint as a corporate lawyer, then went freelancing, then ended up joining the founding team at Snowball Effect and leading that business through its launch and first few years in market. That was a steepest learning curve I’ve had. It was intense, but really rewarding.

Then my wife got posted in a role in Washington DC, so we spent a few years there, and I worked at WeWork. Initially in the office space business, and later in an awesome tech training bootcamp called Flatiron School that WeWork had acquired. 

We arrived back in NZ in early 2020 with one kid in tow and another on the way. I was keen to jump into a startup with a compelling product and team. I’d heard about Jude, and started speaking with the founder Ben while still in DC. We spent some time talking when I was back on home soil, and the timing aligned with commercialising some of the amazing software that the team has built over the last 3 years.

> “You either moved to another firm overseas, or you went on your “OE”. Anything else was likely to raise eyebrows. ” 

**Can you share some more insight into what that transition was like?** 

I guess the main transition for me was moving out of law. Back in those days, there were two well-trodden paths from your first gig as a lawyer. You either moved to another firm overseas, or you went on your “OE”. Anything else was likely to raise eyebrows.

In my case, I was just excited about being in business. I enjoyed my stint as a lawyer, but felt like I was on the sidelines of the game of business. I had a few things I was planning to do in the year I left - CFA level 1, a trip to Europe with my now-wife, and freelance work with some people and companies that I wanted more exposure to.

The freelance stuff was a real gamble, and I think it could have been a flop. I just got lucky and a mate basically tee’d up my first gig from a random conversation he had with a guy in a coffee shop. The initial freelance work led to more freelance work, so it all flowed pretty well. But I want to stress that it could have been much harder to get started, and that could have caused me to lose confidence in that path.

The transition into joining the founding team at Snowball Effect was another major forking of the path. Again I made the decision based on what seemed the most exciting thing to do with my time. 

These days, I reckon there’s probably too much dissing of corporate work and professional services, and too much hype about startup work. Each path has pros and cons. The key is finding the work that’s a good match for you. And that could well evolve as you go through life.

> “  
> For me it’s the “creating”. I love breathing life into a product, then nudging it into the world and trying to help it to stay afloat and gain its own momentum. ” 

**What do you like about working in tech, relative to your past job?** 

For me it’s the “creating”. I love breathing life into a product, then nudging it into the world and trying to help it to stay afloat and gain its own momentum. 

**Do you have any advice for people considering tech as a career path and how they might get there quicker?** 

Ooosh there are so many paths. 

One idea is to make things or write about things that you’re passionate about. You’ll end up learning a whole lot, meeting other people that are part of that community, and being able to demonstrate your interests and skills to future employers. 

**What gets you excited about ākahu/Jude?**

I’m intrigued by compound effects. I don’t think that humans find compounding intuitive. When it comes to personal finance, we need to see “worked examples” in order to grasp how powerful they are. 

I’m passionate about helping people to set up their finances well so that compounding works effortlessly in their favour. With Jude, we can make good financial settings the default position. Then we can put our customers’ finances on self-driving mode. The positive impact becomes massive over a long timeframe.

With ākahu, it’s about providing a critical piece of infrastructure. ākahu’s mission is to empower individuals to gracefully manage their personal data and financial lives. We won’t be the consumer-facing part, but we work with developers who’ll deliver that promise through their products.

**Lastly, akahu/Jude continues to grow. If not right now, what kind of people might be a great fit for the team in terms of experience and attitude?**

Experience will depend on the role. But in terms of attitude, we want people who care deeply about the products we build and the customers that we serve. We want fast learners who can adapt as our businesses evolve. We want our team to inspire each other to do our best work.

Josh Daniell, COO at Jude & ākahu

_Chelsea shares her thoughts on how working in the fashion industry provided insight into the role brands play in our personal identity, as well as a very clever analogy between marketing and fishing. Chelsea also provides some insight into how her experience of working at Uber informed a careful consideration for her next move which many others can learn from. Enjoy._ 

**Firstly, how would you explain to a five year old what it is you do?**

I am a fisherman who is trying out all sorts of hooks, reels, and bodies of water, to get more fish. Except those fish are actually customers, my hook is our brand’s storytelling, the body of water is where we spend money to be seen, and my reel is our carefully considered customer journey.

> “I am a fisherman who is trying out all sorts of hooks, reels, and bodies of water, to get more fish.” 

**Was working in tech something you dreamed about doing as a kid, if not what was?**

Not at all. I grew up in America, and when I was young we had a family computer that lived in the now extinct “computer room” where I occasionally played The Oregon Trail. My childhood career dreams were fairly conventional, I believe I wanted to be a vet at some point?? Working in technology was never talked about as a potential career option - or at all. There are probably a lot of Millennials in tech now who would’ve had a fairly similar experience growing up.

I’m really excited to see what Gen Z founders and entrepreneurs are like, as their childhood is so saturated by tech. I also really hope more kids are encouraged (and have access) to learning code as a means for creative problem solving and critical thinking. Primary and Secondary education desperately needs to play catchup.

**Tell us a little bit more about your career journey and ultimately about how you ended up working at Narrative?**

I studied communications at university, majoring in TV production. University introduced me to the idea of self-discipline and accountability (I was paying for my own education, so I better not screw it up). Beyond that, I didn’t get much practical use from my degree, which is also often the case for people I’ve met working in tech (and more specifically marketing).

After uni, I found myself in the fashion industry where I helped bring overseas labels to New Zealand. I started to appreciate what brands mean to people. How we associate ourselves to brands we like and how we distance ourselves from brands we don’t - brands become a part of our own identity. I realised how much responsibility there is when it comes to storytelling and being authentic as a company. Even though I met some amazing people while working in fashion, I came to the realization that the industry lacked a lot of career opportunities within New Zealand. I also didn’t feel great about how tough the fashion industry is on our planet.

I reached out to a friend of a friend in the marketing team at Uber and begged her to take my CV (even though there were no open roles). I went through a two-month interview process and eventually landed a job. I went on to help expand Uber to seven cities and lead major integrated marketing campaigns across both Australia and New Zealand. Joining a pre-IPO, fast-paced, rapidly growing, unicorn tech company was the literal definition of baptism by fire. I was at Uber for just under three years and worked across two countries when the day came that I had to choose between moving permanently to Sydney and continuing my career at Uber, or living in New Zealand and giving up the gig. I guess it’s pretty obvious which one I chose.

After Uber, I became extremely picky about what company to work for next. I searched far and wide for something that was going to challenge me (in a new way) and decided wherever I went next had to have less than fifty employees. Narrative stood out to me for a number of reasons, but most of all being that James and Steffan were extremely passionate about what they were building, I saw their vision, and the team they had hired seemed pretty awesome.

**Can you share some more insight into what that transition was like?** 

My very first day at Uber, I was flown to Christchurch to do a painting class with some female Uber drivers for International Women’s Day, which was awesome - but at that point, I still had no idea what my actual job was. At Uber, you’re surrounded by unlimited resources, unlimited opportunities, and are moving at an unstoppable pace. Your success, your output, and your actual day-to-day work are completely in your own hands at Uber. Sure it was overwhelming at first (and definitely not for everyone) but I’m so thankful for the experience, it’s shaped me into the marketer I am today.

What is it specifically that you like about working Narrative relative to your past jobs?   
Narrative has a niche market that is calling out for the products we are building. That makes telling our value proposition and seeing photographers excitement extremely rewarding. But it doesn’t just stop there, we are constantly listening, adapting, and improving our product so that it becomes an even more powerful tool for photographers. A product like ours doesn’t currently exist so we are literally all doing things for the first time. From engineering to marketing - we’re all on the journey together. 

**CV’s can be quite lifeless. Have you done anything unique in the past to get the attention of an employer or seen others that have been creative in this regard?**

Yes, this pain is real. I ended up turning my CV into a website (with a downloadable PDF available on the website). It’s relatively easy if you can get your head around Squarespace, Wix, or WordPress. You can tell your story better and make it more enjoyable for the hiring manager. It’s also better for you because you can actually see who is visiting your website, from where, and when. Allowing you to follow up with people/companies at the right time.

> “Don’t be discouraged about not having the “right experience”. I’ve worked with a performance marketer who used to be a ballerina..” 

**Do you have any career advice for people considering tech as a career path and how they might get there quicker?** 

Don’t be discouraged about not having the “right experience”. I’ve worked with a performance marketer who used to be a ballerina, a big tech general manager who used to be a medical Doctor, an operations manager who used to be a fighter pilot. The list goes on… If you want it, you just have to be willing to try new things over and over again. 

**What gets you excited about working at [Narrative](https://narrative.so/ "Narrative")?**

Soft-launching a closed Select Beta with a small budget and seeing the rapid interest within the photography community across Facebook groups and Reddit threads was pretty special. Users can’t wait to get their hands on our software, which is amazing. I’m really looking forward to Select being publicly available. There are some great things to come. 

**Lastly, Narrative continues to evolve. What kind of candidates do you think Narrative is looking for in terms of experience, attitude and character?**

Narrative’s culture really values people who bring a positive attitude and growth mindset to work. If you’re not afraid to take risks, are comfortable with change, and a curious self-starter, you’d excel here. Narrative’s team is made up of a mixture of different talent from different backgrounds, so bringing a diverse and new perspective to what we are trying to achieve is highly valued. If you enjoy good banter and a game or two of ping-pong - you’d fit right in.

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